Donald Trump is a puzzle that the mainstream news media and responsible political class and many others outside of the MAGAverse and larger right-wing disinformation propaganda echo chamber still cannot solve even after nine years of (ostensibly) trying to. At this point, their failure to understand Donald Trump and his right-wing authoritarian fake populist appeal is a choice.
There have been many moments that, per conventional wisdom, should have doomed Donald Trump and his political and personal future. Yet, Donald Trump through skill, a preternatural instinct for survival, devious intelligence, and lots of luck and help continues to endure if not prosper.
Following an assassination attempt in Pennsylvania, instead of cowering in fear Trump defiantly raised a fist and told his followers to “Fight, fight, fight!” In the aftermath of that horrible act of political violence, he has only become more popular and powerful among his MAGA followers. Their belief in and adoration of Trump is now so powerful that they now view him as a type of martyr and prophet-warrior who has been blessed by their “god” as a tool of destiny. As seen at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee, Donald Trump’s control of the Republican Party is now absolute. Today’s Republican Party and “conservative” movement are now fully MAGAfied.
Ultimately, the mainstream media, responsible political class, and other elites are unable to understand the Age of Trump and the larger democracy crisis because they are using the wrong framework and set of assumptions about politics and political behavior (specifically the importance of identity, emotions, and storytelling).
By comparison, Steven Hassan possesses a deep understanding Donald Trump’s power and control over the MAGA people and the larger Republican Party. He has been warning for at least eight years that Donald Trump is not a normal politician, but instead the leader of an extremely dangerous authoritarian personality cult. Hassan’s conclusion is not hyperbole or “partisanship”. It is based on the pattern of facts and the collective psychology and behavior that Donald Trump and his MAGA people have exhibited during the last nine years and beyond.
Steven Hassan is one the world's foremost experts on mind control and cults. Hassan was once a senior member of the Unification Church, better known as the "Moonies." He is now founder and director of the Freedom of Mind Resource Center and has written several bestselling books, including "Combating Cult Mind Control" and "The Cult of Trump."
In this conversation, Hassan explains the roots of Donald Trump and his MAGA movement’s cult-like power and appeal and why it will continue to endure if not grow. He also explains how Donald Trump and his propagandists will use the failed assassination attempt to maintain and expand the corrupt ex-president and now convicted felon’s control over his followers. Ultimately, Hassan warns that Donald Trump and his MAGA movement’s power will be very difficult to break because Trumpism is part of a much larger project, one that has been decades in the making by the Republicans and the larger right-wing and other malign actors to end America’s multiracial pluralistic democracy.
You have been warning about the power of Donald Trump and what you describe as his MAGA cult since the beginning of this crisis back in 2016 and 2015. How are you making sense of this all?
We're in a lot of trouble. Trump did a great amount of damage to the country when he was in power. The judges he appointed are still there. The other institutions Trump and MAGA have captured are still working on his behalf. The global antidemocracy alliance, centered on Vladimir Putin, is still supporting Trump and wants to see him return to power. Trumpism is not something out of the blue. This has been a process taking place over decades. There are so many right-wing extremists all over this country, on the state and local level, in Christian fundamentalist churches and organizations, think tanks, universities, etc. etc. who are advancing the authoritarian cause.
We all have an unconscious bias when we're trying to understand human behavior, to look at the individual's disposition instead of the social influence in the context. This is well-documented in social psychology. Outsiders look at cults like the MAGA movement and conclude that its members are stupid and dumb and gullible. That is not the case. Most of them are just vulnerable and are under the undue influence of an antisocial leader and his influencers across the right-wing echo chamber.
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America has many millions of these vulnerable people. Some of them have gotten swept up in Trumpism and the MAGA movement. Others become white supremacists or join the Christian Right and its most extreme elements.
We also cannot underestimate the power of algorithms and big data to manipulate people and encourage the worst emotions and behavior. There is lots of research showing how sleep deprivation is widespread in this society. Many Americans and people in other countries are just overwhelmed and overloaded with inputs that stimulate their emotions in bad ways. When we are overstimulated with fear, anger, and disgust and other negative emotions the frontal cortex goes offline. You age regress and look for a strong father or mother figure or other authoritarian leader to tell you what to do. Thus, Donald Trump and other populist authoritarians have risen to power all over the world.
When you saw the image of Trump, bloodied and rising from the ground and pumping his fist while saying "fight, fight, fight!" after the assassination attempt on Saturday, how did you make sense of it?
Trump has been playing the victim for years. It is central to his propaganda strategy and cult leader power. The picture of him after he was shot has all those elements amplified to the extreme. Eric Hoffer famously said that “Usually the strength of a mass movement is proportionate to the vividness and tangibility of its devil.” Trump's been telling his followers that I am going to take vengeance and revenge for you. It looks like they, the Left, are attacking me. But they are really attacking you. I am going to stand up for you! The image of him after the assassination attempt is visible tangible proof to his MAGA people of his commitment to them. Trump, like other authoritarians and cult leaders, is always looking for an angle to make money. It doesn't wouldn't surprise me at all if Trump were to auction off his bloody suit and other clothing.
What do we know about the psychology at work when the cult leader's life is threatened or otherwise imperiled? How do the followers respond?
The leader will almost always be made stronger by surviving the danger. Facts will not persuade the Trump followers to leave him. Their attachment to Trump is deeply emotional. Seeing Trump's life threatened has bonded the followers to him much more.
The interviews with the MAGA people at the rally were very revealing and telling — and just confirm what others have been observing about the MAGA movement and those gatherings as a place of community and meaning-making and for some, family. Beyond the accounts of the horrible act of violence they saw, the MAGA people were telling reporters how much they love Trump and have seen him speak many times. They have this almost religious devotion and love for him. One woman basically said seeing Donald Trump speak the first time a few years ago and watching his plane fly overhead was one of the most moving moments in her life. To those outside of the MAGAverse and TrumpWorld, this seems absurd.
There is an overlap between Christian religious cult churches and organizations and Trump's movement. Most notably, New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) groups and charismatic Catholics who believe in prophets and apostles who speak directly to God: speak in tongues, do faith healings and cast out demons to prove it. Members of those groups were prominently involved on Jan. 6. Their leaders believe that Trump won the 2020 election—which of course is not true. The members of these Christian extremist groups will not question their leaders because they view them as divine and messengers from God. Thus, the support for Trump and religious ideation of him by the followers. The emotion of awe is a powerful motivational emotion. We see it with celebrities, billionaires, and other famous people who the public responds to and wants to be like. The passion and idolization for Trump are contagious among his followers and can expand to bring in others. The MAGA movement is based on this.
At the Republican Convention in Milwaukee, there were people wearing bandages on their ears like Donald Trump. It is right out of a textbook on mass psychology.
That is predictable behavior among personality cults and other mind control and undue influence groups. The followers identify with the leader who was harmed. Pretending to be bloodied and injured is a form of shared identity and loyalty. Trump's being injured and presenting himself as almost immortal is part of his attempt to present himself as a hero and force of destiny who overcomes all kinds of trials and tribulations to conquer and achieve victory. That is the narrative that Trump and his propagandists are trying to push — and it seems to be working.
Trump and his propagandists are using the failed assassination as a weapon to silence critics and other truth-tellers. That is a standard move by fascists and other authoritarians, literally textbook as Ruth Ben-Ghiat and others have highlighted. The mainstream news media is, of course, enabling and participating in this silencing of critics and truth-tellers with the lie that "both sides" are equally responsible for political violence in this country as part of its normalization of Trumpism. The Democrats seem cowed too.
The silencing of critics is an example of authoritarian control. Information control has several basic elements such as deception, overt lying, withholding vital information and/or distorting it. Authoritarian control also involves telling members to not talk to ex-members or critics. Only believing in the propaganda and information that is approved by the leader and the cult organization. We are seeing that play out in front of us with Trump and the MAGA movement. The attempt on Trump's life has just amplified and spread it. There are too many powerful people in too many different positions of influence in America and around the world for the MAGA movement and Trumpism to collapse. The antidemocracy movement is too widespread now for it to just dissipate quickly. It will take lots of work to do that.
How would you respond to those people who will say that you should not describe the MAGA movement as a cult and/or Donald Trump as a cult leader? And to do so, especially at this moment, is not polite or nice. You should tone it down and be more “responsible” because you, and people like you, are part of the problem in this country with all these troubles and how high the political temperature has risen.
I would tell them that the MAGA movement is in fact an authoritarian cult. It is dangerous, destructive, anti-human rights, anti-woman, racist and white supremacist, antigay and has many other antisocial values and beliefs. The Trump authoritarian personality and the larger antidemocracy movement are very dangerous. People tried to stop these evil forces in the 1930s and 1940s. We can learn from them and rise to the challenge today. It is the very definition of being responsible to tell the truth about these dangers.
Donald Trump and his agents across MAGA and the larger neofascist movement have made it very clear that their "enemies" and critics and anyone else who opposes them will be severely punished, including being put in prison and worse, when/if they take power in 2025. Enemies lists have already been made. This is a documented fact. Given your book "The Cult of Trump" you are likely on one of those lists. Are you afraid? Is that going to change your behavior?
I believe in standing up against such evil I have been confronting danger since I was deprogrammed from the Moonies 48 years ago. I will not be silenced nor flee. I have always stood my ground against cults. Some of them are very powerful with billions of dollars. I will not surrender the truth or be intimidated into silence. I have had my life threatened by these powerful cults for many years. But I'm not going to stop talking. I want to live my life looking in the mirror knowing that I am doing the right thing. I will not just follow the crowd out of fear like too many other people have done in dark times. We need to be brave. I want people to know we are the majority, and they are the minority. If we believe Trump and MAGA will win, then we give up our collective resources and power. We are stronger together.
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